I've had it!
I can't control myself any more.
I woke up this morning and I read a few blogs. When I came across one that kind of irked me.
I really like reading what Allen has to say. I enjoy his taste in music. I even got to meet him once and he is a cool guy.
I just wish he was here with me, sipping coffee, so we could have this debate face to face. I think it would be more fun.
You see... Allen started talking about how he is not a Christian. And how some one asked him where he goes to church. Now, if some one asked me what bar I hang out in, i wouldn't be offended, even though i don't hang out in bars. And if some one asked me what kind vegetarian dish I prepare so my kids would eat it, well it doesn't bother me that I look trim and I am active so they mistake me for a vegetarian. And you know what else--- some one even once though I was Jewish! They were convinced because of my mannerisms and my attitude. Was I offend? No! Curious, but not too surprised really.
However, it seem that people really get offend when you ask them about what church they go to. I am really kind of piss off about how people look at Christians. Especially at this time of year.
No, not the kind of hypocritical Christians we read about in the news papers.
The kind of Christians like me.
You don't have to believe what I believe. You don't even have to like what I believe. But for those of us who do believe in a Wonderful Higher Power that we don't understand-- and we go off and do our best to share that joy-- why the Hell do you knock us???
OK, so Allen was talking about being a "Good" Christian and what you have to DO to be a good Christian.
WRONG!!!!
You see we Christians are suppose to believe and understand we are saved by grace.
Grace is a gift.
If it was about what we did, we would all fail because we are human and the very nature of human is sinful.
It is the white lie to make people feel better.
It is that dirty little thought in our head.
It is that burring lustful desire.
It is that anger and rage that makes us want to hurt someone when the ones we love are hurt.
All those are very justified emotions.
Although, not all very cool.
Yep... sin..
I'm full of it! SIN
Got lots of it!
I don't deny it.
From the moment I wake up to the moment I go to bed... Sin Sin Sin.
All different kinds!
Lust is a big one-- cause i am such a flirt.
Oh and there is greed.
And I have an extra measure of pride that I was given, especially as my kids get older.
There is this guy I read about, John, he had a good deal of sin too. He talks about in this one chapter of this one book. (Romans7: 14-22) He writes this letter to his friends and tells them how even if he knows what is the best thing to do, and right for wrong, and with all that knowledge, he is still always doing the wrong thing.
He is flesh--and he needs to rely on the Spirit for some good stuff.
Now, these emotions, and sins that make us human, that make us alive, their ain't no one of us who is free of it. WE ARE ALL BAD CHRISTIANS!!!!
For many Christian people, this leads to guilt.
Mostly 'cause they still believe they need to be doing something, or because of the fact that they just don't know how to accept the unconditional love. It is really a tough thing to believe. I guess that is why we call it faith
For people like me, my Christian faith gives me a way out of the cycle. It gives me comfort to know that some one loves me, for who I am, and where I am. It is because of this love, and Spirit, and forgiveness, and gift of grace, that I feel compelled to try to do better. To try to do the right thing.
And another thing. If you guys don't like us Christians -- then stop celebrating the birth of Jesus!!! That's right!!! You heard me! Don't come to the party! Don't accept any gifts-- yep-- and don't eat a big meal and be sure to work and don't watch It's a Wonderful Life or the Charlie Brown Christmas Special and don't by any toys for anybody, especially not those cute little kids you know. And don't get a tree. and don't look at any of those beautiful lights. And no babka, or cookies or special food that we have. Oh Oh... no 12th night party and no GLUG!!!! Yep, starting next week--- just be Scrooge! Ya, Ba Hum Bug!
(see my sinful nature-- ummm this is another thing about the Jesus/God/HolySpirtUmmm... gee... I'm really sorry about that thing I said about the party.
thing. As a human, my judgments are way harsh and not always on track-- ummm I
think it said somewhere in the book that I am not suppose to judge. Damn it all
to Hell!!! Fucking grace!!!)
See, I'm going to guess that Jesus really likes it when you celebrate his birthday, especially if you don't believe in him.
Yeah, I get that from the prodigal son thing in that book I was telling you about. (Luke 15:11-32.)
Those of us who do believe, He knows we are here. Those of you who do not, well he would really like you to come to the party. He would really like it if you knew unconditional love, and joy, and happiness.
I know many are not Christians.
I am not judging you.
I love it when you send good thoughts my way --- instead of prayers.
I love it when we can debate about this stuff.
I love to hear your point of view... especially when it is different from mine... it makes me think.
But could we lay off the "Bad Christian" thing for a while.
Can't you just look at those of us who do believe in the love of Jesus with a softer heart?
Not all of us are that bad. I mean, don't you think Jesus did a couple of good things?
Come on ... water into wine??? Feeding the poor? Even if you dont believe it is real, isn't it a cool concept?
Sometimes I feel people look at me and judge me more harshly because of my faith.
Don't you think it would be much easier for me just to give it up?
Forget about sin and do what I want?
And in the end, I just die and that's it. No heven, no hell, just nothting.
See, this is a choice I've made. I do my best. It seems to may it may even be a longer road. But I'm going to walk it anyway.
Honesty, some of the best Christians I know don't believe in Christ or God. Like Allen!
I don't think they even believe in lunch meat! Well, maybe Allen does, but they seem like really good Christians!
I have I feeling that even though these people may not believe in God, God believes in them. That is why that light shines through them.
May I add that none of this changes the fact that I support a woman's right to choose, equal marriage rights, equality in education, & justice to spite ones finaical situation.
Yep-- a liberal Christian.
Well, if can't agree about the God thing.. maybe we can at least agree on what Elvis once said
What's so funny about peace love and understanding?
You can erase me from your blog roll now.
Amen
Well, if can't agree about the God thing.. maybe we can at least agree on what Elvis once said
What's so funny about peace love and understanding?
You can erase me from your blog roll now.
Amen
24 comments:
i think anti-religious people tend to be more outspoken and overly sensitive to make up for the perception (often incorrect perception) that they are constantly being judged by religious people. both hyper-religious and anti-religious people often have the wrong idea about the other.
Actually, I read Allen's post and I think his point was more in line with yours than you realize. It seems to me his issue was with his Christian friends who beat themselves up for not being "good enough". They are actually the ones who would benefit most from your very passionate and eloquent reminder about what grace means.
monica-- agreed
Lorraine-- you, you--you-- peace maker!!
Lorraine,
I have reread Allen's blog, and I have to agree with you, so I am changing 2 words in my blog.
You have just so posted about something that has been chapping my ass of late!..
..follows a minor rant;
Just because I'm a Christian,don't automatically assume I'm one o' those pinched in,self righteous assholes that condemns everyone to the firey pit just because they think a little differently.
My personal relationship with The Lord is strictley between He and I(yes..I said He!..sue me,fer chrissake)..
I'm seeing a trend over the last couple of years,whereby any display of Christian belief is considered "rude" to non-Christians..WTF!!..Excuse me!
Some major stores no longer display Christian "symbols",or even allow employees to say,"Merry Christmas",because some obscure freakin' anal retentive putz might be offended...Screw 'em!.
The day I have to apologize for being a God fearing sinner is the day I spit in the face of my accuser!..
..sorry..I just read an article about the woman in Sudan that was convicted of "insulting Islam" because she named her classes' teddy bear,Mohammed...She barely escaped 40 lashes,being deported instead...so I'm a little pissed.
I haven't read Allan's post yet,but I know him to be an honorable man,and a gentle soul..The Jesus I know personally! would agree I'm sure.
PLUS!..Christmas is my birthday...
Don't fuck with it.
Crap!..I forget to mention that my blogroll will most certainly not be changing any time in the foreseeable(is that one word?) future...carry on.
'K, for the record, I'd like to add that it makes me, as a Christian, extremely happy to have other Christians in my circle who say "WTF" and "asshole" and other stuff like that there.
Sometimes I don't blame non-Christians for getting all pissy with us. There are a lot of Christians who make the rest of us look bad...judgemental, hateful, "pro-life", which somehow also means "pro-war" and "pro-capital punishment" and against any publically funded program that would do anything to support the families of all those babies they want to save.
I went through a patch back in the 80s when I was loathe to identify myself as a Christian because people then automatically assumed that I was a right wing Republican. Eewww.
And sorry about the peacemaking earlier. I'll try to be more devisive. You know, like all those "good Christians" out there making noise.
Great post.
Its hard not to sin on a daily basis.
Would going back to church help me?
Sling--I saw that on the news too. I cant believe it! What is in a name anyway???
And i guess I should mention I like allen, think he is A#1! It was his post that motivated me and got me thinking and that is a very good thing. and like i said he is one of the more "chirst like" people I have ever met (although I bet he wouldnt agree with me)
Oh, thanks for not removing me :)
Lorraine -- peacemaker is a good thing. And yes it is great that we can be christian and human!!
TK -- i dont know if it will help or not, look at those guys who preach and then get caught doing things they call sinful-- doesnt help them. For me, it helps center me some weeks and other weeks I walk out so mad I want to scream.
Knock them out CM!
Nothing wrong with being 'spirited' :)
I just think it's sad that anyone spends their day believing that they are full of sin. That is very depressing to me and I hope whatever it tis in your faith that helps you deal with that makes you happier. You deserve happiness Mouse, regardless.
First... great post. Extremely powerful; let it marinate out there for all... I know my blogroll WILL remain un-changed. I myself was raised extremely christian by choice but am more of an agnostic today.
I was the ONLY one in my house of many that ventured out to church. Today... Although I don't identify as Christian I would NEVER make blanket judgements on what a Christian is or isn't or what makes ANYONE good/bad, right/wrong, etc. I'm not into radical points of view... be it in God or Meat or the Environment... there's too much finger pointing and judging in our society as it is... can't we all just get along??? ;)
Ah its al been said. I like that word "Grace" . I believe in a higher power, was raised a Roman Catholic, although in our family it was done gently and with that "Grace"
I don't go to church or anything because I have a big problem with organisations...thats just me.
Each to her or her own and live in Grace. When one understands what that word really means all else follows.
You know over here in Australia, the big company which is U.S. based and which hires and trains all the Santa Clauses for the big shops etc...has told them they are not allowed to say "Ho, Ho, Ho" anymore...it has to be "Ha, Ha, Ha" Truely.
You see in the US a Hoe has a certain meaning...and not a tool for gardening...and the kiddies who shouldn't even know what that means might get upset when sitting on Santy's Knees...
dearie me CM...
why would anyone want to change their blogroll?
Nice post, Citymouse. I'm amazed at how few people (including "Christians") seem to think Christianity is about doing particular things. Thank God it's not.
Hey Mouse! That was no mousey post, ha! Well, I read Allen's post, and I'm in agreement w/ both of Lorraine's comments - I felt Allen was saying that his friends are better people/Christians than they believe themselves to be, and he hates to see them flogging themselves over it.
Also, our country has become so polarized. The extreme evangelicals used to be seen as a fringe group, but with their effect on politics the last 8 years, I think many equate those more fanatical types with everyday average Christians, which is unfortunate. The many incidents of priests/politicians the past few years has also publicly added to the perception of hypocrisy, and equating those incidents with Christianity in general.
What you said about people seeming to take offense if others assume they are Christian - the thing that stood out for me from Allen's post was that his friend assumed he was a Christian "because he was open and honest". The natural assumption that if you're very moral, that must be due to a belief in God and following His ways. I have to say that particular thought has bothered me in the past, especially when the person is very surprised when I say I'm not a Christian - as if only Christians can be moral, and I must be an exception.
Having been on both ends of this spectrum, I do understand what you're saying. I think it's a real shame that this divide has gotten so bad in recent years between the believers and not.
(Oh, and what's that business about the blogroll? I love that you posted this - what the heck is wrong with having a different opinion and saying so? Anyone adjusting their blogroll over that can skip on back to high school. Or MySpace. You can rank people there, all public like. You rock.)
holyshit, I've got to be better at brevity. Crap.
Citmouse, I don't stop by often enough, but wanted to read this since Cowbell mentioned it to me the other day.
I was raised Catholic and now consider myself an agnostic, except for the days I prefer "secular humanist." My parents and sister are all still believers, and I love and respect them all very much, altho' we don't talk about religion much and I suspect that they suspect that I'm not nearly as religious as I once was.
And I wanted to say that I feel for you -- no one likes to be painted with a broad brush, and were I still a believer, I'd be nothing like the evangelical, anti-gay, anti-choice, pro-gun, pro-war, anti-any-retail-outlet-wot-chooses-Holiday-over-Christmas Republican nightmares that give ordinary, human Christians like yourself a bad name.
However, I'll also note that I'd love to see the ordinary, human Christians speak out more against the evangelical wingnuts who pervert the message of Christianity to serve their own political ends. Because the only people I hear willing to take those folks on most of the time are godless heathens like me -- and just so I'm clear, it's not their faith that pisses me off, it's their hypocrisy.
Anyway, I think it rocks hard that you just put yourself out there like that and said what you really thought. Just sayin'.
I read alan's post and I don't think you got it at all.. I agree with lorraine...she got it..Im not a christian...and it doesn't bother me if people ask what church I go to...I do resent the ones that clutch my arm or hand and ask me if I believe in God, or have you found Jesus...?..Questions that I think are personal and no one's fucking business..but doesn't bother me to tell them that no, I don't believe in God and I didn't know that Jesus was lost and it was my job to keep up with him...so I think you might want to read Alan's post again and see if you get it this time..cause I think this rant you pulled on a guy who is honest and upfront and makes no bones about who he is or who he feels is badly misplaced...
Fuff== sometimes you got to say what ya got to say.
Hat-- I think that is what is called the recovering catholic. I do feel there is so much more I could do, and so much I left undone.
T- I know, i try not to judge.. but geess it hard, especally with all those wonderful people who make those wonderful laws and send our kids to war.
Middle child-- :) There is a song "Santa lost a ho" you should look it up.
Diesel---:) thank you
Cowbell -- I always enjoy reading what you have to say. And yes, the divide is bad-- like t said i wish we could all just get along!
Eric-- I enjoy reading your blog, although I dont get over there as much as I would like. thank you for stopping by. If you looked back a big (last year with my exchange student) you'd see I would be kicked out of most "Christian" circles. I usually try to practice what I believe in the real world and because most of my readers are liberal open minded people like me, I try not to preach to the choir.
Yellow dog--I think you missed two very important parts of my post--
1. I like Allen, I have the pleasure of meeting Allen and I love to debate intellengent things with him.
2. I am not ranting about Allen, but about his post.
But if it means that much to you, I will stop saying that Allen acts like a good Christian 'cause it really pisses all his firends off!
Wow.
You really did miss the point of my post. Entirely.
Your post hurt. You painted me as someone I am not:
"Allen started talking about how he is not a Christian. And how some one asked him where he goes to church. Now, if some one asked me what bar I hang out in, i wouldn't be offended"
I didn't bring the subject up, I was asked. Nor was I offended. I don't know how you inferred that I was offended from what I wrote. It's not my habit to start unsolicited IRL conversations about not being a Christian.
I wasn't making statements, I was asking questions. Your post attributes ideas to me that aren't
expressed by me.
I didn't mention X-mas in that post. Not once. My post was pro-Christian, for Christ's sake!
I'm glad you are opening up and expressing yourself and your ideas but please don't misrepresent me or mine.
You are still on my roll,
Allan
Wow.
You really did miss the point of my post. Entirely.
Your post hurt. You painted me as someone I am not:
"Allen started talking about how he is not a Christian. And how some one asked him where he goes to church. Now, if some one asked me what bar I hang out in, i wouldn't be offended"
I didn't bring the subject up, I was asked. Nor was I offended. I don't know how you inferred that I was offended from what I wrote. It's not my habit to start unsolicited IRL conversations about not being a Christian.
I wasn't making statements, I was asking questions. Your post attributes ideas to me that aren't
expressed by me.
I didn't mention X-mas in that post. Not once. My post was pro-Christian, for Christ's sake!
I'm glad you are opening up and expressing yourself and your ideas but please don't misrepresent me or mine.
You are still on my roll,
Allan
Tuesday, December 11, 2007
Allen, Here is my formal, public, apology.
In no way did I mean to hurt you. I am truly sorry you feel that way.
I am sorry I hurt your feelings.
I am sorry your point didn't come across in the manner you intended it. It seems that is my problem.
I am sorry I misrepresented you.
I guess you missed the part I wrote about how I like you... and I like to debate with you.
I linked your post and site because I wanted people to read your point of view--- just so you would be represented correctly--so that it wasn’t one sided-- so your post could be heard. By the comments left on my blog, I believe it was.
But I am really sorry that it took you this long to say something to me.
Apology accepted. Life's too short for blog drama. I didn't publish any of my angry replies, and I'm glad I didn't. You have read my angry posts- can you imagine being the subject of one? Ugh. That's how I felt when I read your post.
I was having a very Bad Day- the timing was terrible, but that wasn't your fault.
I don't get the 'debate' part.
I think we are in agreement that folks should knock off the Bad Christian talk and cut themselves and others some slack...what's to debate?
Apology accepted. Life's too short for blog drama. I didn't publish any of my angry replies, and I'm glad I didn't. You have read my angry posts- can you imagine being the subject of one? Ugh. That's how I felt when I read your post.
I was having a very Bad Day- the timing was terrible, but that wasn't your fault.
I don't get the 'debate' part.
I think we are in agreement that folks should knock off the Bad Christian talk and cut themselves and others some slack...what's to debate?
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